Brian McLaren on Leading, Living, and Loving in Uncertain Times
Brian McLaren on Leading, Living, and Loving in Uncertain Times
Is the future as bleak as it seems? Brian McLaren joined me on the Future Christian Podcast to discuss his latest book, Life After Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart. We explored how individuals and institutions—including the church—can navigate collapse, change, and renewal with wisdom and love.
If you're a pastor, church leader, or someone wrestling with the uncertainty of the world today, this episode is a must-listen. Here are two of the most thought-provoking takeaways from our conversation.
Facing Doom Without Losing Heart
One of the central themes of McLaren’s book is how to live after facing the reality of doom—not in a dramatic, apocalyptic sense, but in the very real way that institutions, churches, and the world around us seem to be unraveling.
“More and more of us feel that our institutions that have served us well for a long time seem incapable of helping us face the realities around us on many levels. That feeling—doom—is something we have to name before we can move forward.”
McLaren suggests that acknowledging this feeling is the first step to finding new ways forward. Whether we are talking about climate change, the decline of denominations, or shifts in our social structures, ignoring the reality of the situation only leads to more despair.
He shared a moment from a protest march where a fellow marcher, despite feeling hopeless about the cause, still showed up:
“She said, ‘I’ve given up hope. But I’m still here because of love.’ And in that moment, I realized—that’s what will keep us going.”
The Church Must Shift from Institution to Movement
One of the most profound parts of our conversation was McLaren’s challenge to the church to stop seeing itself as an institution and start seeing itself as a movement.
“Jesus said, ‘Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst.’ What if that’s the future of the church? What if, instead of massive institutions, we embraced small, resilient communities centered on love and action?”
McLaren points to how other movements—such as early Christianity and even modern evangelicalism—have thrived not because of rigid institutional structures, but because of their ability to move and adapt.
“If we continue to put our confidence in structures that are already failing, we’re missing the opportunity to live out faith in new ways. The future of Christianity isn’t about maintaining buildings and titles—it’s about people choosing to show up for love.”
Listen to the Full Conversation
If you’re wondering how to lead well in a time of uncertainty—whether in your church, your community, or your own life—this conversation with Brian McLaren will challenge and inspire you.
We discuss:
✅ Why so many churches and institutions struggle to adapt to change
✅ The four possible futures for our world—and which one we should work toward
✅ How to lead with wisdom and courage, even when facing the unknown
If this conversation resonates with you, let me know your thoughts. How are you finding ways to show up for love in your church or community?