Of the World, But Not In It
A reflection on Joelle Kidd’s critique of Evangelical pop culture and the challenge of true Christian presence
TL;DR/Executive Summary:
This blog reflects on Joelle Kidd’s critique of Evangelical culture as “of the world, but not in it.” Drawing on John 17:14–16, it explores how Christian communities—Evangelical and Progressive alike—often mirror cultural systems while failing to be truly present in the world. The post calls for a more faithful, engaged, and distinct Christian witness.
I’m trying to get into a regular rhythm of sharing a blog every Friday—usually a reflection on a conversation from my podcast. Please give it a listen and subscribe if you haven’t already. These are important conversations (at least I think so!), and one of the reasons I enjoy them so much is that they give me a chance to think deeply about perspectives—both familiar and new.
This week’s episode, hosted by my co-host Martha Tatarnic, features a powerful conversation with Joelle Kidd. Kidd shares about her formative years growing up in an Evangelical subculture in late 1990s/early 2000s Canada. I was struck by two things: first, the cultural context she describes felt surprisingly familiar, even though I likely have a few years on her.
Second, she offered a line that’s been rattling around in my head ever since:
“I feel like I often heard this phrase that you're supposed to be in the world, but not of it. To me, the Christian pop‑culture bubble is really that you're of the world somehow, but you're not in it. You're so separated from the real world, but they're taking on all the trappings of secular pop culture and a lot of the toxic messages that you're taught outside of that bubble” (my emphasis).
Let that sink in: “You’re of the world, but not in it.”
Kidd is referencing a well-known passage from Jesus’ prayer for his disciples in John 17:14–16 (NRSV):
14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world.
15 I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one.
16 They do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world.
This passage forms the basis for the traditional Christian teaching that believers are to live in the world, but not be of it.
The Greek word translated “of” is a preposition that hints at origin or source. Growing up, I often heard this passage interpreted similarly to Kidd’s reflection: we are to be present within the world—among its people, systems, and messiness—but not derive our identity, values, or behavior from its patterns or morals.
Kidd’s critique, then, is both sharp and insightful. She’s suggesting that Evangelical subculture hasn’t really been in the world in any meaningful or transformative sense. Instead, it created insular enclaves—separated from wider society—while ironically mirroring many of the world’s structures, especially capitalism and the commodification of faith.
What I believe Jesus was calling for—and what many Evangelicals meant to do, even if they struggled to live it out—was to be present in the world as ambassadors of love and grace. As a good Evangelical might say, we were to be the “hands and feet” of Jesus: bearing witness through our actions, words, and daily presence, without being subsumed by the world’s logic, ethos, and value systems.
While Kidd’s interview and book focus on critiquing Evangelicalism, as Martha notes in the episode, it’s not just Evangelicals who fall into these traps. Any of us—whether progressive, mainline, or otherwise—can get swept up in ideologies that mimic the dominant culture. Readers of this blog have seen me raise critiques of Progressive Christianity as well. In its best form, it seeks to be “in the world” in an incarnational and justice-oriented way, but it can also become of the world in ways that blur the boundaries of distinct Christian witness.
Kidd’s central claim—that Evangelical culture often created holy huddles that failed to engage the broader world while simultaneously replicating its patterns—is a troubling one. And a fair one. It’s worth sitting with.
You can find the episode on your favorite podcast platform or listen here:
I first heard that juxtaposition almost 50 years ago, but Kidd is absolutely right in her use and understanding. It’s a turn of phrase that needs to be brought out regularly in the Christian community: evangelical, mainline, reformed, catholic/orthodox, or under whatever label our tribe is called. I used it to title a post in May in a different context. In that post the altered quote from John 17 was paired with Jesus’ response to Pilate in John 18: my kingdom is not of (from) this world. My vote for the most accurate representation of Jesus’ reply is not in one of the various translations but in a paraphrase: “My kingship does not derive its authority from this world’s order of things. If it did, my men would have fought to keep me from being arrested by the Judeans. But my kingship does not come from here.”
My observation of ecclesial deliberative gatherings is that authority in the church is very much “from this world’s order of things.” Further, our self-preoccupation with denominational or parochial survival often translates to a disconnect with the cities and towns where we minister and certainly with other Christian communities that are not of our tribe.